.... Let's have a heated debate! (Part 2)
Welcome back. So, where were we?
8:42pm
Oh, so apparently that's the end of the international affairs portion. Next question: (asked by a bit of a hottie, hello Mary) why should anyone trust any of you ever again? Clegg refers to the "old parties" again, and does his bit for voting reform.
Dave is keen for none of this nasty expenses-fiddling stuff to ever happen again. Lots of closing of stable doors long after the horse has legged it here, methinks. Nick sounds like he's coming onto Mary. Hands off! Gordon is making a fair point about the significance of politics, but of course it's the politicians who are the problem rather than politics itself.
Dave reminds us we are all in this mess. Gordon is emphasising that things must become more transparent, but he pronounces it "trans-pear-ant" which is most distracting.
8:54pm
Grace has brought up 5 children for most of her life. Well done love, what do you want, a medal? Oh, a better pension, I see. I don't mind saying this subject scares the shit out of me. £59 per week is arguably not a reasonable pension, but is likely to be a damn sight more than I'll get by the time I retire (probably at the age of 75, or something).
Clegg is targeting the energy companies for charging folk too much. Dave now giving Gordon a stern telling off - Tories definitely will keep free bus pass, winter fuel credit etc. He is ANGRY about the LIES. Gordon is convinced that they are lying, however. Clegg coming across well in defending his winter fuel policy, seems to have more substance than Brown who is concentrating on glib attacks and point-scoring.
9:04pm
Next questioner is from Witney - that's Cameron's constituency that is (I knew that without looking it up too, so ner). Is coalition government the best way forward for Britain? Um, kinda depends on the result of the election does it not?
Clegg as the leader of the third party (for now!) is understandably up for more collaboration, especially on finance. Brown points out we already have that kind of finanical body. Ah, but no Lib Dems are on it! He's not answered the question really. Cameron slagging off the National Insurance increase now. The business leaders don't like it (well they fucking wouldn't, would they?). Again, not really relevant to the question, Sir. Clegg, meanwhile, does. Brown goes back to attacking the others. Think Nick wins this round.
9:14pm
Brown talking about tightly regulating the banks - again, that horse fucked off a long time ago.
And now, an immigrant. How will you make immigration fairer? Nick would tighten the boarders, with proper exit controls. Labour and the Tories created chaos, essentially. Gordon is against Nick's propesed amnesty for illegals. He will train up skilled workers in Britain to do our jobs. Stopping encouraging so many people to go to uni to do pointless degrees would be a start. Dave will bring immigration levels down and pop a cap in its ass, so to speak.
Nick says he doesn't want a blanket amnesty, but will let nice honest folk who've been here for a while stay, even if illegal. First mention of ID cards by Brown. Biometric visas ftw. Points system. Dave hates the amnesty idea too, and slags the regional immigration idea (remember that from last week?). He says the Tory was is the only sensible way. Nick says they have no substance. Brown is convinced that the points system works - it works for the Aussies. Don't they let people die on boats rather than enter Oz?? (only joking, Australian folk)
I'm still none the wiser on immigration really, it's such a volatile issue and everyone tends to dance around the subject for obvious reasons.
9:26pm
A final 90 seconds each to try and win YOUR vote. Gordon gets to go first. He's painting himself as a strong military leader and statesman, and the man to steer us through the choppy financial waters. Voting for the others would be a risk.
Cameron again accuses Brown of frightening people. Tories will bring fresh, new leadership. Big on family values, as well as defending our security. Britain is great, or at least we will be if we get rid of labour.
Cleggs says we could be a "force for good" in the world. Emphasising Lib Dems would be genuinely different - something exciting is beginning to happen. Vote for him, vote for change, vote for pride, not for the old parties.
Another choreographed handshake and that's your lot. Handshakes to the audience too, for some reason. Men of the people and all that. So, how was it for you? I will offer my opinion before watching/listening to the media reaction, which with its desire for a workable narrative inevitably influences (dictates?) public opinion. To me Clegg came out of it well again, succeeding in presenting himself as an alternative to the two "old parties" (one of which is of course far younger than the Liberal party) and offering at least some substance in terms of policies.
Of course, substatial policies aren't really what these debates are about. I'm not actually knocking them for their superficiality, as the crucial thing at the moment is to get people involved in the political process again and actually care about it one way or the other. Brown certainly thought the best way to convince people tonight was to lay into the other two men, and he actually made a decent fist of using his age to his advantage by coming across as a more patriachal, wiser figure.
As for Cameron, I must confess to zoning out somewhat every time he speaks. I would never vote Tory so I'm naturally far less likely to listen to what he has to say, but I realise I probably should in a "know your enemy" kinda way. But it's true that he is more about the style than the substance so far, and although he's throwing out a few ideas and policies here and there he's careful not to go into too much detail on them. Of course this worked for Blair in spades in a similar situation, but now the wild card is Clegg and the Lib Dems. The Tories seemed to be struggling to gain a convicing winning position before these debates started, now with the yellows joining the reds and blues in play as a credible party in a lot of peoples' eyes the whole thing appears to be even more up for grabs.
Clegg's approval rating probably won't be as high after this second debate, mainly because he came from nowhere last time. It may well be that come May 6th most people will have cooled towards his party once more, but they certainly seem to have their best chance in my lifetime of actually gaining a significant presence in Parliament, the media and even - gasp! - in government too. Things may be about to get very interesting.
8:42pm
Oh, so apparently that's the end of the international affairs portion. Next question: (asked by a bit of a hottie, hello Mary) why should anyone trust any of you ever again? Clegg refers to the "old parties" again, and does his bit for voting reform.
Dave is keen for none of this nasty expenses-fiddling stuff to ever happen again. Lots of closing of stable doors long after the horse has legged it here, methinks. Nick sounds like he's coming onto Mary. Hands off! Gordon is making a fair point about the significance of politics, but of course it's the politicians who are the problem rather than politics itself.
Dave reminds us we are all in this mess. Gordon is emphasising that things must become more transparent, but he pronounces it "trans-pear-ant" which is most distracting.
8:54pm
Grace has brought up 5 children for most of her life. Well done love, what do you want, a medal? Oh, a better pension, I see. I don't mind saying this subject scares the shit out of me. £59 per week is arguably not a reasonable pension, but is likely to be a damn sight more than I'll get by the time I retire (probably at the age of 75, or something).
Clegg is targeting the energy companies for charging folk too much. Dave now giving Gordon a stern telling off - Tories definitely will keep free bus pass, winter fuel credit etc. He is ANGRY about the LIES. Gordon is convinced that they are lying, however. Clegg coming across well in defending his winter fuel policy, seems to have more substance than Brown who is concentrating on glib attacks and point-scoring.
9:04pm
Next questioner is from Witney - that's Cameron's constituency that is (I knew that without looking it up too, so ner). Is coalition government the best way forward for Britain? Um, kinda depends on the result of the election does it not?
Clegg as the leader of the third party (for now!) is understandably up for more collaboration, especially on finance. Brown points out we already have that kind of finanical body. Ah, but no Lib Dems are on it! He's not answered the question really. Cameron slagging off the National Insurance increase now. The business leaders don't like it (well they fucking wouldn't, would they?). Again, not really relevant to the question, Sir. Clegg, meanwhile, does. Brown goes back to attacking the others. Think Nick wins this round.
9:14pm
Brown talking about tightly regulating the banks - again, that horse fucked off a long time ago.
And now, an immigrant. How will you make immigration fairer? Nick would tighten the boarders, with proper exit controls. Labour and the Tories created chaos, essentially. Gordon is against Nick's propesed amnesty for illegals. He will train up skilled workers in Britain to do our jobs. Stopping encouraging so many people to go to uni to do pointless degrees would be a start. Dave will bring immigration levels down and pop a cap in its ass, so to speak.
Nick says he doesn't want a blanket amnesty, but will let nice honest folk who've been here for a while stay, even if illegal. First mention of ID cards by Brown. Biometric visas ftw. Points system. Dave hates the amnesty idea too, and slags the regional immigration idea (remember that from last week?). He says the Tory was is the only sensible way. Nick says they have no substance. Brown is convinced that the points system works - it works for the Aussies. Don't they let people die on boats rather than enter Oz?? (only joking, Australian folk)
I'm still none the wiser on immigration really, it's such a volatile issue and everyone tends to dance around the subject for obvious reasons.
9:26pm
A final 90 seconds each to try and win YOUR vote. Gordon gets to go first. He's painting himself as a strong military leader and statesman, and the man to steer us through the choppy financial waters. Voting for the others would be a risk.
Cameron again accuses Brown of frightening people. Tories will bring fresh, new leadership. Big on family values, as well as defending our security. Britain is great, or at least we will be if we get rid of labour.
Cleggs says we could be a "force for good" in the world. Emphasising Lib Dems would be genuinely different - something exciting is beginning to happen. Vote for him, vote for change, vote for pride, not for the old parties.
Another choreographed handshake and that's your lot. Handshakes to the audience too, for some reason. Men of the people and all that. So, how was it for you? I will offer my opinion before watching/listening to the media reaction, which with its desire for a workable narrative inevitably influences (dictates?) public opinion. To me Clegg came out of it well again, succeeding in presenting himself as an alternative to the two "old parties" (one of which is of course far younger than the Liberal party) and offering at least some substance in terms of policies.
Of course, substatial policies aren't really what these debates are about. I'm not actually knocking them for their superficiality, as the crucial thing at the moment is to get people involved in the political process again and actually care about it one way or the other. Brown certainly thought the best way to convince people tonight was to lay into the other two men, and he actually made a decent fist of using his age to his advantage by coming across as a more patriachal, wiser figure.
As for Cameron, I must confess to zoning out somewhat every time he speaks. I would never vote Tory so I'm naturally far less likely to listen to what he has to say, but I realise I probably should in a "know your enemy" kinda way. But it's true that he is more about the style than the substance so far, and although he's throwing out a few ideas and policies here and there he's careful not to go into too much detail on them. Of course this worked for Blair in spades in a similar situation, but now the wild card is Clegg and the Lib Dems. The Tories seemed to be struggling to gain a convicing winning position before these debates started, now with the yellows joining the reds and blues in play as a credible party in a lot of peoples' eyes the whole thing appears to be even more up for grabs.
Clegg's approval rating probably won't be as high after this second debate, mainly because he came from nowhere last time. It may well be that come May 6th most people will have cooled towards his party once more, but they certainly seem to have their best chance in my lifetime of actually gaining a significant presence in Parliament, the media and even - gasp! - in government too. Things may be about to get very interesting.
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